<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.0.2" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Democratic Agenda:  A Business Perspective</title>
	<link>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/</link>
	<description>Spreading Conservative ideas across the net.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: Mean Gene</title>
		<link>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/#comment-212606</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/#comment-212606</guid>
					<description>Come now. I didn't say that productivity went up while the minimum wage stayed the same. I said that productivity went up while inflation &quot;&lt;em&gt;dramatically eroded the minimum wage’s purchasing power&lt;/em&gt;&quot;. What, you thought I wouldn't remember what I wrote...in the post directly above? You do understand this point, don't you--five bucks can't buy as many goods and/or services as it did ten years ago. You call me &quot;nonsensical&quot; and yet you can't even honestly reproduce what I wrote? Weak.  

&quot;Do you actually think productivity increased because people just decided to work harder? Or perhaps it’s innovation and creativity in technology and the application thereof that makes the worker more productive? I would say the latter.&quot;

I would say it's an impossibly complex mix of many, many factors. To say that it was just innovation and creativity in techonology is incredibly facile. Do I think workers &quot;just decide to work harder&quot;. Hell yes I do. They want to climb that ladder. They want to make more money, they want to get promoted. You actually think that it's computers alone that made our economy grow so much, and not the hard work, ambition, and ability of the American work force? You don't believe in the American Dream? You don't believe in capitalism? 

&quot;And where does an employer get the money to invest in new technology? from his profits...&quot; Or they borrow the money. Or they issue stock. Or they sell assets and reinvest the money from the sale. You said you took finance?

&quot;Minimum wage artificially increases the cost of labor.&quot; No, it doesn't. If I'm a cardiologist the minimum wage doesn't mean I get an extra few bucks in my paycheck. The minimum wage sets a &lt;em&gt;floor&lt;/em&gt; for the cost of labor. It's a political consideration as much as an economic one. The argument is that someone who works a minimum wage job should be paid in a manner that allows them a certain standard of living. The idea behind increasing the minimum wage is that the benefits to our society (decreases in crime, more time spent with children, better able to provide for oneself and not rely on social services, etc etc etc) would outweight the costs.

Would raising the minimum wage decrease the number of jobs available? Almost certainly. But let's not forget that as the minimum wage lost purchasing power over the last ten years, there was not an equal decrease in unemployment. It stands to reason that increasing the minimum wage would not result in an equal increase in unemployement. Also, people who work 2 jobs today because one isn't enough to get by might be able to make do with just one job. 

&quot;Conservatism is about the individual, much like entrepreneurship. Liberalism is about the state where everyone is “equal”, no one should have more than anyone else…perhaps you should take a class in political science as well…&quot;

You're description of liberalism is more in line with communism, which is neither fair nor accurate. And your definition of conservatism is equally useless. But let's go with them anyway. So you're cool with homosexuals then. Gay people shouldn't be singled out for discrimination, because the state shouldn't get involved in their individual love lives. And abortion, that's up to the conscience of the individual, the state should have no say in that either. Good, I agree with you there. Everyone should be allowed to do his own individual thing, without the Man hassling them about it. It sounds totally groovy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come now. I didn&#8217;t say that productivity went up while the minimum wage stayed the same. I said that productivity went up while inflation &#8220;<em>dramatically eroded the minimum wage’s purchasing power</em>&#8220;. What, you thought I wouldn&#8217;t remember what I wrote&#8230;in the post directly above? You do understand this point, don&#8217;t you&#8211;five bucks can&#8217;t buy as many goods and/or services as it did ten years ago. You call me &#8220;nonsensical&#8221; and yet you can&#8217;t even honestly reproduce what I wrote? Weak.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Do you actually think productivity increased because people just decided to work harder? Or perhaps it’s innovation and creativity in technology and the application thereof that makes the worker more productive? I would say the latter.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would say it&#8217;s an impossibly complex mix of many, many factors. To say that it was just innovation and creativity in techonology is incredibly facile. Do I think workers &#8220;just decide to work harder&#8221;. Hell yes I do. They want to climb that ladder. They want to make more money, they want to get promoted. You actually think that it&#8217;s computers alone that made our economy grow so much, and not the hard work, ambition, and ability of the American work force? You don&#8217;t believe in the American Dream? You don&#8217;t believe in capitalism? </p>
<p>&#8220;And where does an employer get the money to invest in new technology? from his profits&#8230;&#8221; Or they borrow the money. Or they issue stock. Or they sell assets and reinvest the money from the sale. You said you took finance?</p>
<p>&#8220;Minimum wage artificially increases the cost of labor.&#8221; No, it doesn&#8217;t. If I&#8217;m a cardiologist the minimum wage doesn&#8217;t mean I get an extra few bucks in my paycheck. The minimum wage sets a <em>floor</em> for the cost of labor. It&#8217;s a political consideration as much as an economic one. The argument is that someone who works a minimum wage job should be paid in a manner that allows them a certain standard of living. The idea behind increasing the minimum wage is that the benefits to our society (decreases in crime, more time spent with children, better able to provide for oneself and not rely on social services, etc etc etc) would outweight the costs.</p>
<p>Would raising the minimum wage decrease the number of jobs available? Almost certainly. But let&#8217;s not forget that as the minimum wage lost purchasing power over the last ten years, there was not an equal decrease in unemployment. It stands to reason that increasing the minimum wage would not result in an equal increase in unemployement. Also, people who work 2 jobs today because one isn&#8217;t enough to get by might be able to make do with just one job. </p>
<p>&#8220;Conservatism is about the individual, much like entrepreneurship. Liberalism is about the state where everyone is “equal”, no one should have more than anyone else…perhaps you should take a class in political science as well…&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re description of liberalism is more in line with communism, which is neither fair nor accurate. And your definition of conservatism is equally useless. But let&#8217;s go with them anyway. So you&#8217;re cool with homosexuals then. Gay people shouldn&#8217;t be singled out for discrimination, because the state shouldn&#8217;t get involved in their individual love lives. And abortion, that&#8217;s up to the conscience of the individual, the state should have no say in that either. Good, I agree with you there. Everyone should be allowed to do his own individual thing, without the Man hassling them about it. It sounds totally groovy.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: cracker</title>
		<link>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/#comment-211803</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/#comment-211803</guid>
					<description>If I were you, I wouldn't admit that I went to a B-school either.  Just by your nonsensical statement that productivity went up but minimum wage stayed the same.  Do you actually think productivity increased because people just decided to work harder?  Or perhaps it's innovation and creativity in technology and the application thereof that makes the worker more productive?  I would say the latter.  And where does an employer get the money to invest in new technology?  from his profits, profits earned by keeping costs down and supplying consumers with a product they want.

Minimum wage artificially increases the cost of labor.  The VALUE of that labor is realative to a free market economy.  If one were to artificially raise the cost through minimum wage increases DOES NOT MEAN the value of that labor is increased.

I suggest a few more classes in management, entrepreneurship, economics, and finance...in fact, let me know what school youo went to so I can tell everyone NOT to go there if you're not learning anything.

Conservatism is about the individual, much like entrepreneurship.  Liberalism is about the state where everyone is &quot;equal&quot;, no one should have more than anyone else...perhaps you should take a class in political science as well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were you, I wouldn&#8217;t admit that I went to a B-school either.  Just by your nonsensical statement that productivity went up but minimum wage stayed the same.  Do you actually think productivity increased because people just decided to work harder?  Or perhaps it&#8217;s innovation and creativity in technology and the application thereof that makes the worker more productive?  I would say the latter.  And where does an employer get the money to invest in new technology?  from his profits, profits earned by keeping costs down and supplying consumers with a product they want.</p>
<p>Minimum wage artificially increases the cost of labor.  The VALUE of that labor is realative to a free market economy.  If one were to artificially raise the cost through minimum wage increases DOES NOT MEAN the value of that labor is increased.</p>
<p>I suggest a few more classes in management, entrepreneurship, economics, and finance&#8230;in fact, let me know what school youo went to so I can tell everyone NOT to go there if you&#8217;re not learning anything.</p>
<p>Conservatism is about the individual, much like entrepreneurship.  Liberalism is about the state where everyone is &#8220;equal&#8221;, no one should have more than anyone else&#8230;perhaps you should take a class in political science as well&#8230;
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Mean Gene</title>
		<link>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/#comment-211330</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 01:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/#comment-211330</guid>
					<description>Good Lord, I just saw from your bio that you have an MBA. No wonder I never tell people I went to B-school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Lord, I just saw from your bio that you have an MBA. No wonder I never tell people I went to B-school.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Mean Gene</title>
		<link>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/#comment-211329</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 01:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/06/23/the-democratic-agenda-a-business-perspective/#comment-211329</guid>
					<description>Odd, I would think that entrepreneurship, which is perhaps the catalyst for America's unparalled economic success, belongs far more to the &quot;liberal&quot; side of the political ledger than &quot;conservative&quot;. Entrepreneurs have to think outside the box, they reject the status quo, they go against conventional wisdom and entrenched ideas. I'm sure your counterargument would be to argue that everything good is by definition conservative and everything bad is by definition liberal, but you didn't define those two terms most likely because it would require you to defend that argument. Which is hard work.

Your argument that Air America could never survive without investor capital is possibly true. But let's not forget all those conservative think-tanks and magazines that exist solely because of deep-pocketed donors. Ever hear of Richard Mellon Scaife? In any case, using Air America (or, say, the National Review) as a metaphor for the American business world is a bit silly.

&quot;Raising minimum wage will increase the cost to the business owner though the value of the labor remains the same.&quot;

Let's look at the reverse of this situation. There hasn't been an increase in the minimum wage in ten years. In that time inflation has dramatically eroded the minimum wage's purchasing power. Over those same ten years, the productivity of American workers has increased by about &lt;strong&gt;120%&lt;/strong&gt;. 

So your statement that the &quot;value of the labor remains the same&quot; is shockingly misinformed. It's not just that what you say is stupid--it's a direct insult to the hard-working citizens of this country, who are the most productive workers in the world. The &quot;value of labor remains the same&quot;. What a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Odd, I would think that entrepreneurship, which is perhaps the catalyst for America&#8217;s unparalled economic success, belongs far more to the &#8220;liberal&#8221; side of the political ledger than &#8220;conservative&#8221;. Entrepreneurs have to think outside the box, they reject the status quo, they go against conventional wisdom and entrenched ideas. I&#8217;m sure your counterargument would be to argue that everything good is by definition conservative and everything bad is by definition liberal, but you didn&#8217;t define those two terms most likely because it would require you to defend that argument. Which is hard work.</p>
<p>Your argument that Air America could never survive without investor capital is possibly true. But let&#8217;s not forget all those conservative think-tanks and magazines that exist solely because of deep-pocketed donors. Ever hear of Richard Mellon Scaife? In any case, using Air America (or, say, the National Review) as a metaphor for the American business world is a bit silly.</p>
<p>&#8220;Raising minimum wage will increase the cost to the business owner though the value of the labor remains the same.&#8221;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s look at the reverse of this situation. There hasn&#8217;t been an increase in the minimum wage in ten years. In that time inflation has dramatically eroded the minimum wage&#8217;s purchasing power. Over those same ten years, the productivity of American workers has increased by about <strong>120%</strong>. </p>
<p>So your statement that the &#8220;value of the labor remains the same&#8221; is shockingly misinformed. It&#8217;s not just that what you say is stupid&#8211;it&#8217;s a direct insult to the hard-working citizens of this country, who are the most productive workers in the world. The &#8220;value of labor remains the same&#8221;. What a joke.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
