The Wide Awakes » Crystal Clear Look at the Loving & Murderous Michael Schiavo

3/15/2005

Crystal Clear Look at the Loving & Murderous Michael Schiavo

I have written before about my belief Michael Schiavo’s history and pattern of behaviors and actions fit those of the type of an abusive man. Commentators on this blog and other blog(s) who read and view the press renditions and legal decisions by Greer regard Terri’s family and friends as disgruntled and motivated to basically say and do anything to stop her murder via starvation and dehydration. I believe some project their own need and belief their own loving spouse knows their wishes best, would act according to their wishes, and would therefore greatly resent any family intervention in a situation like this.

I truly can appreciate the need to avoid unnecessarily villifying Michael Schiavo. I didn’t easily come to my decision and choice to indeed villify his actions, behaviors, and especially now… his choice in murdering her. In fact, I found as I went through the early court documents and history of the case, I could see where people would consider it a stretch to even see him possibly guilty of hurting or harming Terri in anyway. His behaviors most certainly were those of a loving and caring husband for quite a while even after she was incapacitated. So how did I bring these loving and kind behaviors into an alignment with those of an abusive and controlling husband?

One of the perhaps most misunderstood things about abusive, controlling, narcissitic/borderline men is that they are not consistently 100% monsters through each and everyday of their day to day lives. The vast majority do have a conscience and can be quite loving for their own purposes. Additionally, they usually most display their pathology in intimate relationships where they experience emotional vulnerability as terrifying and threatening. The love-hate dynamic plays itself out in what we call in object-relations theory good object /bad object. Rage can be seen as coming from fear and worry of being either abandoned or the flip side, swallowed up out of existence by the object and thus rage can be seen as serving as a very primitive means and attempt at re-gaining a sense of control for sense of emotional safety.

There is a reason professionals call it a cycle of violence. There can be years between events of violence as well as mere hours or days. Unfortunately we see the cycle escalates over time without intervention and treatment. Also professionals time and time again see a pattern regarding behaviors on the part of the batterer. As an interesting aside and more evidence to myself as to nature of the pattern in abusers and those they abuse is that we also see the exact same patterns in same-sex intimate relationships.

With limited time on my lunch break, I will only cite a few examples from the media and Terri’s family and friends here. I also understand there are a number of other incidents and experiences by others who experienced Michael’s bullying and intimidation. This link is a good compilation of statements by Michael that also display his highly controlling nature. I would urge you to please read all information yourself. In my eyes I am not looking at one example or incident as an A-ha! moment…it is the gestalt I have written about before of an intimidating and controlling man who seems to fly into rages…

monitoring amount of miles on her car as well as her comings and goings
September 5, 1991 bone scan by Dr. W. Campbell Walker, M.D. lists "compression fracture[s]" throughout Terri’s body and concludes: "The patient has a history of trauma."
In the early 1990’s, Michael Schiavo’s treating psychiatrist, Dr. Peter Kaplan, stated in a phone conversation with Terri’s father, in regards to a violent episode occurring between Michael and Terri’s younger sister Suzanne, that Michael was potentially dangerous and should a situation re occur, to call the police.
Terri talking of divorce to many different people and admitting a great deal of verbal arguments such as his furor about 80$ for haircut
Michael’s ex-girlfriend’s experience of Michael stalking her & her fear of him
I do believe, despite the Schindler’s denial, Terri did most likely suffer from bulimia and that it also fits in with Michael and Terri’s relationship.
- His wanting and needing her to be thin as she was experienced as an extension of his self. Terri and her appearance reflected on Michael’s sense of his self.

Let us get back for a moment as my time runs short as to how I was able to reconcile these things and more with regards to Michael being a loving husband and where we sit today concerned he may be allowed to murder her. I am writing now and speculating from my personal thoughts and beliefs and opinions. If you feel there is something I missed or want to bring to my attention to answer or clarify. Please do so. You are absolutely and obvisouly free to agree or disagree with any and all parts. Crystal Clear?

I believe that night in February 1990 it is possible it might have been a mixture between Michael strangling and suffocating her and her collapsing from the imbalance related to her Bulimia. I believe he may have known or had a feeling Terri was considering divorce or was feeling her emotionally separating from him. Perhaps he himself was feeling an ambivalence of loving her but blaming her for his own inadequacies or previous rages. If there was indeed a cycle of abuse going on, there may have been a slow on-going building of tension. Perhaps with regards to not getting pregnant, financial concerns, or something seemingly small like her 80$ hair cut and hair color. This may all have been building up inside with no means of constructively "working it out" earlier, the way healthy couples do as they face the never-ending line of problem-solving events in marriage and life.

Michael gets home late in the evening after a hard night of work at the bar/restaurant. Somehow…Obviously I am guessing here…something she said or did pissed him off…perhaps he was flirting with a pretty woman earlier at work and felt trapped being married…perhaps she got up to wretch or just was making too much noise for him as she used the bathroom and he was trying to fall asleep…whatever it is…

SNAP!

He goes into rage mode…How dare she?…Doesn’t she know how hard he works?…He goes into this rage mode not necessarily with the intent to murder her…but he is huge and strong…she is small and weak…He just wants her to shut up and be quiet so he can get his well-desrved rest… …She, perhaps because she has wretched recently, collapses completely because the stress of his smothering/strangling her on top of her recent wretching is too much for her stressed body…Or perhaps she may have struggled a bit but she just knows he really does love her and she really believes he will stop…His rage eventually comes to an end and there she is….What the heck has he done to the woman he loves??? What the heck has he done to his wife???

I can see how the good husband behaviors of Michael continued for quite a while from this point…Out of both guilt and love…Perhaps I will write further on that another time…

Cross posted at Crystal Clear.

Said Crystal Clear @ 3:46 pm | Permalink

33 Comments »

Truly awesome post! /TJ

Comment by TJ — 3/15/2005 @ 7:56 pm

On “Crystal Clear Look at the Loving

For a tougher “no punches pulled” take on Michael Schiavo and the murder of Terri, read this previous Hyscience post.

Trackback by Hyscience — 3/15/2005 @ 8:46 pm

Wide Awake Nightmares For Terri Schiavo

Crystal takes an unvarnished look at Michael Schiavo, formerly the

Trackback by Common Sense Runs Wild — 3/15/2005 @ 8:57 pm

Hmm. My immediate reaction to your post is this - even if you analysis is correct that he is an overly controlling husband with incedents of violence, its unfair to go so far as to accuse him of causing the initial event. No evidence has been shown to support that accusation, and its besides the point to speculate on it.

Comment by EMO — 3/15/2005 @ 11:44 pm

Emo-You need to actually read the documents and facts linked in the post. There is a bone scan and multiple doctors who are indeed saying her injuries at that time are indeed consistent with strangulation &/or asphyxiation..Judge Greer himself called the bone scan “interesting” and said it should be investigated…I wonder how morally bancrupt and sick you are to refer to this situation (in which an abusive man actually may have the legal right to starve his wife to DEATH and could legally get away with it) AND not question Michael’s part in it.Almost laughable to refer to accusing HIM as “unfair” …You are sort of right though in that many many many people throughout the years should have speculated just THIS scenario and investigated it…

Comment by Crystal — 3/16/2005 @ 1:05 am

I think that you have made a good analysis of Michael’s character.

The other person who has made a comment says that there is no evidence on what Michael might have done that night. Well, considering the evidence that Terri suffered a neck injury, I am of the opinion that he did attempt to murder her, and that your analysis highlights some of Michael Schiavo’s traits when he is being pushed.

This is also noticeable with the attitude of Michael and his determination that Terri must not receive any form of rehabilitation or treatment.

Margaret

Comment by Margaret — 3/16/2005 @ 1:15 am

Thursday is the house vote on Terri’s bill, HB 701

Tallahassee, FL (LifeNews.com) — Legislation designed to protect Terri Schiavo and other disabled people who haven’t indicated their wishes for medical treatment heads to the full Florida House after clearing its final committee hurdle. If passed, it…

Trackback by Cao's Blog — 3/16/2005 @ 5:53 am

Here is another but equally likely scenario. Terry was having or contemplating an affair. Look at the signs. Dieting, expensive hair cuts and in other stories expensive clothes and handbags. (People having or contempalting affairs take great interest in their appearance.) The tale she told about the odometer reflects caution and paranoia induced by guilt. She needed to hide her activities from Michael. Another sign of a cheating wife. Her husband was working most evenings and weekends-opportunity. She spoke of divorcing her husband to at least one girlfriend and her brother as if testing the idea out. Clearly she had not told her husband and she didn’t exactly explain why she wanted a divorce other than to say she was unhappy. Sounds like she had met someone else. Unsuspecting Michael suddenly looks suspicious because of her divorce remarks that he knew nothing about, the fights they had about her expensive and extravegent spending that given their income were justified and her collaspe due to over dieting to look good for someone else. Is this speculation on my part gross and unfair? You betcha it is, but no more than the speculation rampant in this post.

Prior to my marriage to my husband, we sat down one morning and I designated him as the beneficiary on all of my insurance and my thrift savings account (a type of 401K). Then we went into the yard where he proceeded to cut down a tree that fell on me. It was my fault. After telling him what tree to cut I absent mindedly wandered over to check out some azeleas. Afterwards my (to be ) husband told me this is how people get wrongfully accused of murder. It was funny but true.

Comment by Carol — 3/16/2005 @ 6:38 am

Different scenario but by no means equally likely….Perhaps if Michael was now the one with brain damage AND Terri wouldn’t let him go home with his parents instead of KILLING her… Might be able to read this with more serious consideration.. Perhaps try again while also including facts such as the bone scan…and that Michael didn’t remember this until after the settlement….and use other facts and documents in the case…

Comment by Crystal — 3/16/2005 @ 8:29 am

Why doesn’t anybody talk about this:

At some point, Michael Schiavo provided WRITTEN consent for a surgery to insert this gastrostomy tube(feeding tube, which is HARDLY life-support). As her guardian he would have had to provide written consent for any procedure for Terri.

If he knew that Terri would have NOT wanted any artifical support, then why would he have consented for the gastrostomy tube? WHY? His contention for all these years is this “conversation” that he has with her and she specified she would not want a gastrostomy tube (which I doubt). Then why consent for the tube, EVER?

Let me answer my own Question with exerps from his nightline interview last night:
Schiavo:
And I just want to say one more thing: Out of all these lawmakers, be it the Florida Senate, Florida House, the U.S. Congress, Gov. Bush, President Bush — I want to know who will come down and take Terri’s place. Who wants to do that?

Me:
Certainly not Michael Schiavo…. What he is really saying is, who on earth, any place would want to live like Terri is living. So, what would Michael Schiavo think of my son, and his friends?

BURY: Michael, in the heated rhetoric that’s swirling around this case and has been for a number of years now — all kinds of charges have been flying back and forth.

First of all, do you stand to benefit financially in any way from your wife’s death?

SCHIAVO: There is no money. I will receive not a penny.

BURY: You did receive something of a malpractice settlement north of $1 million at one point, is that correct?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

FELOS: Well, no.

BURY: And what happened to that?

FELOS: Michael didn’t receive those funds. Those were received in Terri’s guardianship and it was a bank who was her guardian of the property that administered those funds.

BURY: But the question remains: What happened to those funds?

FELOS: Well, those funds have been used for Terri’s medical care and guardianship expenses and costs and fees over many, many years.

Those funds are virtually gone, and Mr. Schiavo is not going to inherit or gain one penny by the result of Terri’s death.

ME:

Michael Schiavo set a trap for himself here, in my estimation. Those funds are virutally gone NOW, but HE would have gotton the money.

Here is where the pride, the anger, and the greed and selfishness come into play. He has no humility, no humbleness to him.

1. He WOULD Have gotten the money 14 years ago, if Terri’s family hadn’t intervened. He WOULD have. Well, they messed up his plans didn’t they? He admits to getting the malpractice money. AND: He admits to being FORCED to spend it all to battle Terri’s parents to have her gastrostomy tube removed. SO: 2 years out, and he would have recieved some. AND: 4 years out, there was some left. BUT: They have fought him for so long that NOW there is “virtually” nothing left, right? So, now ANGER ANGER ANGER, because Terri’s parents got his cool 1 million blown on attorney’s fees, right?

You ask, why would he fight for Terri if he didn’t love her and care about her?
ANGER: PRIDE:

He has no humility. He will NEVER admit that all of these years that he was wrong. To allow Terri’s parents to have her now? Over his and her dead bodies… Vindictive…. Angry…. Pride cometh before a fall. Now Terri is a “celeb” as he called her, gee that’s a loving kind and caring term to use about his wife, a woman that he is about to have killed. I bet that on Friday and the days following this Michael Schiavo will not shed a tear, not one single misty eye.

BURY: I understand that that’s your feeling about what your wife wanted, but knowing that you believe she is in a vegetative state and knowing that her mother and father have said they’re willing to pick up the burden and carry on the cost, what is the harm to you if you agree to their wishes and relinquish guardianship to them?

SCHIAVO: Basically what I just said. Her father stated in court he would cut her arms and legs off. I’m not going to turn over Terri to a person that would do that to you.

Drum roll PLEASE:

The answer to the question that WE HAVE ALL BEEN waiting for:

Schiavo: Her father stated in court he would cut her arms and legs off. I’m not going to turn over Terri to a person that would do that to you.

ME:

Makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? That is completely reasonable, right? He won’t give Terri to her father and mother because he really and actually believes that he will cut her arms and legs off and put her on a ventilator and keep her alive. That is a sound, reasonable argument. He is protecting Terri from a life with her mother and father, because he thinks they will do this thing to her. Not because he loves her and cares for her and wants to fulfill her wishes, but because Terri’s father is an awful human being who would do this thing.

Unbelievable… Simply unbelievable… This guy is a real charmer.

I am a Registered Nurse. I have a son that has multiple, severe disabilities.
Kathy W.

Comment by Kathy W. — 3/16/2005 @ 8:29 am

First, having read the speculation, I still find it extremely unlikely that Schiavo was involved in invoking Terri’s condition. Among other reasons for this belief is the fact that Terri’s heart stopped yet she was breathing when Bobby arrived (also that help was summoned by Schiavo while Terri was still alive — he did not know she was incapacitated then). So think of that. The heart is stopped but not the breathing. How does that happen?

Now we are correctly wondering about Schiavo’s character. From seeing him last night, he appears self-absorbed and essentially irrational. He could not even figure how his upheaval over people accusing him of adultery, etc. would sound.

Duh,…. Michael. Everyone knows you are committing adultery. That is a “no brainer”. The fact that Michael seems to think he should bring it up is irrational.

So we have a guy who gave up one million dollars for nothing — not even pride (the bills will pass). Priceless.

Comment by Paul Deignan — 3/16/2005 @ 1:06 pm

Explaining Michael Schiavo

Crystal Clear Look at the Loving & Murderous Michael Schiavo I have written before about my belief Michael Schiavo’s history and pattern of behaviors and actions fit those of the type of an abusive man. Commentators on this blog and…

Trackback by Discarded Lies — 3/16/2005 @ 2:29 pm

WOW!
You’ve pretty much echoed my sentiments!
I’ve had the same gut feeling about Scott Peterson too!

Comment by MoFiZiX Gr4FiX — 3/16/2005 @ 6:22 pm

Of all the facts that I have heard and read, I beleive this guy has a problem. He and Scott Peterson have alot in common. The courts need to hand guardianship over to the parents. Investigate this guy and put him away. An animal gets better treatment than Terri. Read between the lines Judges.

Comment by deb — 3/24/2005 @ 1:13 pm

The allegations against Micheal Shiavo were investigated and found to be meritless. If you really beleived this man had been physically abusing his wife during their marriage, you have to ask yourself what kind of parents would have stood idley by while this was going on? At one point they lived with her parents so they would have to have been aware. What kind of parents would have kept silent about this type of abuse for seven years until he decided to remove her feeding tube? What kind of parents would have kept silent and let him escape prosecution for the murder of their daughter? Scott Peterson was not abusive to his wife. He wnated a divorce but was greedy and did not want to have to split his hard earned assets with her. The advent of a child insured he woudl continue to pay out his hard earned assets for years to come. It is becasue he wasn’t abusive that her parents had no clue and failed to suspect him at first. However, once they got suspicious, and it didnt’ take them 7 years, they acted immediately. What kind of parents are the Schindlers?

Comment by Carol — 3/25/2005 @ 6:46 am

Carol,

the investigations were stymied. They were not found to be groundless. The only real complaint that was dismissed was the lie that the Schindlers had tried to do something to their daughter. The police did check into that complaint and found that it could not be substantiated.

Up until this latest DCF investigation, all attempts to investigate were stifled by people in high positions.

The other story about the complaints being groundless is one that is circulated by George Felos. The manner in which he has orchestrated the dismissal of the claims leaves a lot to be desired.

Comment by Maggie — 4/3/2005 @ 8:41 pm

I was an abussed women for years, and my family was unaware of this, I was fearful for them, and so I kept it very quiet, although I did have friends that were aware, and I asked them to please not say a word, because I know how very much my family loves me, and if they were to find out about this abbuse who knows what may have happened, so you see I not olny tried to protect myself but also my family, and I am sorry but Mr. Schiavo fits my ex to a t, all the way down to not letting me go anywhere and checking my millage, and as far as comments about Terri’s parents do not say one bad word about them, because once they did start to hear from Terri’s friends they did start an investagation, and so many times I hear in my life, WHY would someone stay with someone who hurt them like this, well let me tell you my reasons, and that may help, 1st I was told if I left he would find me and kill me, 2nd he would blow up my home and anyone in it, 3rd if I ever tried to date EVER again, he would find out and kill the guy make me watch, and then kill me, and 4th he stoled a gun from his mothers house and was going to come use it on me because I said NO MORE!
He was taken to jail that night!
My question now is did Terri finally say NO MORE, and angered her husband, I don’t know, but I do know that every night I watched her Mom cry, and how tired her father, and brother and sister were, I would cry also, because I pictured myself as Terri, and her family as mine, my abbuse ended over 12 years ago now, but I just told my mother about it, when we were doing all we could to try and help fight for Terri’s life!
Iam slightly disabled now myself, and the doctors are pretty sure it was from the abbuse, and because of this my Husbad and I suffer fianically, but Iam here, and so is my family who may not have been if I would have told them this deep hidden secret!!

Comment by Mr. Z — 4/10/2005 @ 12:17 am

Typo on my name
God Bless You all!!

Comment by Mrs. Z — 4/10/2005 @ 12:19 am

Love the amateur hour attempts at psycho analysis of Michael Schiavo using only media sound bites and the disinformation of the Schindlers and their handlers.

Since when does a stiff neck in a seizuring person constitute a “neck injury”? Do you suppose a doctor in a hospital would list “stiff neck” when what he really meant was “neck injury”? Which a doctor would likely be more specific than “neck injury” anyway. Not to mention that if a “neck injury” had been suspected upon her admission the doctor would have ordered cervical xrays and a CT Scan of her neck. The medics would have taken c-spine precautions and she (Mrs Terri Schaivo) never would have left that emergency room without a cervical collar and resulting notations in her medical chart.

Its amazing the leaps and bounds that are made by the conspiracy theorists and just the normal run of the mill man haters.

Its very sad that Mrs Terri Schiavo lost most of her brain function. Whats worse is all these people without college degrees or professional credentials of any kind posting speculation about unproven, unsubstantiated rumors of abuse and divorce.

She was seeing a fertility specialist in an effort to have her husbands baby. DO abused women tend to work at getting pregnant by their abuser?

Do “devout” catholics go around talking to people they hardly know (co-workers)about their martial problems and that they want a divorce?

Did anyone EVER testify under oath that Mrs Terri Schiavo said she was considering a divorce? Do you suppose the insurance company that paid Michael Schiavo settlement money for his “loss of consortium” with his wife would have paid him a dime if they could have found ANYONE that would testify that she never intended to spend the rest of her life with him??

THINK! Use your brain.

Comment by Unreal — 4/23/2005 @ 9:22 pm

Crystal (the author of this piece) is a therapist, I would hardly say her opinion is “amateur”, her opinion is based on facts, not fiction or media spin, as yours obviously is.

A bone scan and an expert’s evaluation of it constitute a neck injury. Dr. Michael Baden and Dr. Williams Hemmesfahr both attested to the fact that her injury was consistent with one thing: attempted suffocation.

The neck exam was abnormal. She had severe limitation of range of motion in the flexion, and to a lesser degree in extension. Indeed, I was able to pick up her entire torso and head and neck area with pressure on the back of her neck in the suboccipital region. These findings of cervical spasm and limitation of range of motion are consistent with a neck injury. Interestingly, I have seen this pattern of mixed brain (cerebral) and spinal cord findings in a patient once before, a patient who was asphyxiated.

Dr. Walker, the doctor who did the bone scan in 1991 is another witness.

“It does show evidence that there are other injuries, other bone fractures that are in a healing stage,” Baden explained. Those apparent injuries were likely the result of “some kind of trauma. The trauma could be from an auto accident, the trauma could be from a fall, or the trauma could be from some kind of beating that she obtained from somebody somewhere. It’s something that should have been investigated in 1991.”

Note that Terri’s bone scan showed Terri had a broken pelvis, broken femur, broken ribs, broken knees and broken ankles.

Psychiatrist Carole Lieberman (who wrote the book ” Bad Boys: Why We Love Them, How to Live with Them and When to Leave Them“) paints a sinister portrait of Michael Schiavo.

She says he’s “pathologically controlling,” likens him to O.J. Simpson, and calls him a “Prince of Darkness.”

“Michael fits the profile of an abusive husband,” Lieberman says. “He should most definitely be investigated.”

“As Terri Schiavo starves to death, it is time to alert more lawmakers to the truth: the wrong person is being ‘punished’ for Terri Schiavo’s current state,” says Carole Lieberman, M.D. a Board Certified Psychiatrist on the Clinical Faculty of UCLA. Having interviewed Terri’s father on her radio show (”Dr. Carole’s Couch” on voiceamerica.com), Dr. Lieberman uncovered the fact that Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, fits the profile of a wife-abuser – the same profile that fit O.J. Simpson and Scott Peterson.

Comment by Cao — 4/24/2005 @ 4:35 am

Cao the medical reports said bone truama not bone breakage. Only one was possibly a fracture. Furthermore the scan was taken several months after her “accident”. Most improtatntly though, it has come to light that the department of Social Services investigated 117 allegations (many of them called in by people whonever met Terry but heard via the internet of her abuse) of abuse and dismissed everyone of them as unsubstantiated. This is the same Department that later towards the ned sought an injunction to removing the feedign tube so they could investigate allegation of abuse, which they ahd already investigated and dismissed. The allegations ranged from bedsores, lack of treatment, wife abuse or in other word sall of the allegations people have been speculating about. I’m sorry I cannot proivde a link. I saw this several weeks ago but hated to rehash the whole thing.

Comment by Carol — 4/24/2005 @ 9:54 am

I linked to the bone scan, (and the analyses thereof) Carol. The bones were healing from being broken.

Comment by Cao — 4/24/2005 @ 6:33 pm

My understanding or rather memory of the “unsubstantiated” claims is rather that the DCF felt the court was handling the case and thus it wasn’t necessary to proceed…that is very different than finding them without basis…also as I have said before .. the police are much better at “investigations” than DCF…these agencies are also notorious for being found out (after a murder/death of someone under their supposed protection) to have allowed years of allegations that were unsubstantiated to have continued…As we have only the summary provided us we really have no way of knowing what data and information they reviewed or what resources they had at their disposal…I have enough experience in this realm to tell you there are actually more cases of abuse and neglect that are NOT charged and followed through on than are charged…That is just the way the system works….sometimes it works well but sometimes it does not.

Comment by Crystal Clear — 4/24/2005 @ 6:39 pm

Nope it came to light that they ahd in fact investigated 117 allegations including at least one made against her parents and brother.

Comment by Carol — 4/24/2005 @ 7:26 pm

Carol-it says in the written DCF reports that some of the issues (the issues regarding therapy from my memory) (I am not saying ALL of the issues) were still being litigated and thus there was not need for intervention…that was part of their investigation. It also says that since some of the allegations had been “investigated” before they weren’t going to investigate again…don’t you have a problem with that??? Yes it could be a Crying Wolf scenario but what about the possibility further abuse had happened since the last allegation? It also did remark and find that Michael did try to withhold antibiotics…Now I don’t know why they wouldnt’ consider that abuse…hmmm perhaps because things were being stymied by higher ups???? Gee…Please tell me you can see the circular thinking and process in this case…

Comment by Crystal Clear — 4/24/2005 @ 9:54 pm

Stating that she is a “therapist” means nothing as in some states there are no laws prohibiting someone with no degree from claiming such a title. Its somewhat like chiropractors and podiatrists using the title “doctor”. It sure make them seem so much more educated than they are.

Did psychiatrist Carole Lieberman actually meet Michael Schiavo or is she forming a professional opinion based on what she has been told by third parties and what she has seen on news reports? By the way is “Prince of darkness” an official psychiatric diagnosis?

Dr Michael Baden was not given complete information and in later interviews he shifted his position, some might say he radically changed course. After being told the bone scan was of a PVS patient taken more than a year post PVS he readily admitted that there were more likely causes than abuse or beatings.

By the way- bone scans are not meant to detect fractures. We use x-rays to demonstrate fractures. Bone scans show areas of bone that have a particular affinity for radio isotopically marked materials (the kinds of materials needed in turnover) because the areas are abnormally active for one reason or another. Fracture is only ONE possibility of many.

The point is a BONE SCAN is not an X-RAY and they are used for different diagnostic purposes. They are not interchangeable. Bone scans show if bone is active and x-rays show differences in its density.

Dr. Williams Hemmesfahr claims to be a Nobel Prize nominee even after being informed that he most certainly is not entitled to make such a claim. Beyond that he examined Mrs Schiavo many years after her collapse. And saying:

“Interestingly, I have seen this pattern of mixed brain (cerebral) and spinal cord findings in a patient once before, a patient who was asphyxiated.”

is a far cry from saying “such findings are a definate indication that this patient was strangled or suffocated.”

Its also ridiculous to even suggest that he might have any expertise at all in determining a correlation between suffocation or strangulation and limited range of motion in the neck since he said himself he had ONLY EVER ENCOUNTERED anything similar ONCE in his career- only ONE other patient had he ever seen that he could describe as having a similar range of motion with their neck and apparently the doctor had information that that PARTICULAR patient had been ASPHIAXIATED (Note he did NOT say strangled or smothered, the patient he saw might have been the victim of an industrial accident where oxygen had been displaced)

So bottom line on that is that he has never made a study, done any research or published anything on the statistical correlation between limited range of motion in the neck (nearly 15 years post PVS mind you) and strangulation/suffocation.

He does not claim to be a forensic scientist. He does not claim to be a forensic medical specialist. He does not claim any special expertise in the diseases or degenerations of post PVS non ambulatory patients. He has no data to make comparisons to- he has not gone out and done 100 neck range of motion exams on 100 patients that were all 15 years post PVS and charted the results.

He made a more or less meaningless statement - meaningless because he never said that this ONE other patient he had ever seen was being examined 15 years post PVS. Meaningless because he has no basis on which to be comparing unless these patients have a nearly parallel medical history and are both 15 years post PVS when examined.

Meaningless because we know with certainty that Mrs Terri Schiavo was seizuring during her initial hospitalization and could have sustained any number of soft tissue, muscle, ligament/tendon, or even bone damage from her seizures or even her subsequent contractures.

The good doctor never provides any indication that these two patients have any medical history in common at all.
__________________________________

Crystal opined:

“My understanding or rather memory of the “unsubstantiated” claims is rather that the DCF felt the court was handling the case and thus it wasn’t necessary to proceed…that is very different than finding them without basis…also as I have said before .. the police are much better at “investigations” than DCF”
______________________________________

When a state agency is given specific statutory authority to investigate abuse the police will defer to that agency. The police recognize that the investigators of that agency have specific education, training and experience with abuse and the applicable laws and legal principles for such investigations. As a matter of fact most of those agencies sponsor trainings and seminars that the police investigator can choose to attend in order to better recognize abuse.

In particular most of these agencies have specially trained investigators who are better able to successfully interview child victims since most POLICE investigators are more experienced with interviewing and interrogating adult crime suspects and do not have extensive experience with child as victim or child as witness interviews.

The last thing a police investigator wants to see is a good case thrown out because a defense attorney can demonstrate that the POLICE INVESTIGATOR tainted the child as victim or child as witness’s testimony because the officer had no knowlege of child psychology or no specific training or experience with child witnesses.

In the case of Mrs Schiavo the police would most likley have deferred to the expertise of DCF since the police investigators would have had little or no experience with investigating a hospice or dealing within a medical jargon filled environment and being surrounded by doctors, medical charts (most of which would not be plain english or easily readable), etc.

To charge or not to charge is primarily determined by the likelihood of success at trial. If the prosecutor thinks the case will fail at trial the case won’t be charged. Or perhaps the victim withdraws. In states where the 911 tape is automatically admissable it appears the that the defendants tend to plea bargain more often than in states where it is not. Nothing says guilty like the audio of the wife graphically describing what the husband is doing. Not to mention it does a really great job of getting the judge or jury into the mind of the victim at the MOMENT the crime is committed. Because many months later when it comes to trial and she is sitting there all calm and composed and nicely dressed (and so is the defendant) things just seem so clean and sanitary. But when that tape plays it takes the varnish right off.

Comment by Unreal — 4/24/2005 @ 11:14 pm

Crystal I truely wish now I had linked the article. It came out jsut last week and it clearly and unequivocally stated that 117 allegations made over the course of the Shiavo bruhaha (my word not theirs) had been investigated and dismissed. Teh story was about why the Department had tried to intervene at he 11th hour in order to investigate when the evidence showed that they had in fact already investigated every allegation and dismissed them. As pointed out by unreal thier investigators have special expertise and the police do defer to them.

Comment by Carol — 4/25/2005 @ 5:09 am

I checked my DSM and “Prince of darkness” is definately not listed.
______________________________________

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), published by the American Psychiatric Association, Washington D.C., 1994, the main diagnostic reference of Mental Health professionals in the United States of America.
______________________________________

Maybe it will be in the next edition…

Comment by Unreal — 4/25/2005 @ 8:09 am

I meant to address this little tidbit from Crystal also:

“I do believe, despite the Schindler’s denial, Terri did most likely suffer from bulimia and that it also fits in with Michael and Terri’s relationship.
His wanting and needing her to be thin as she was experienced as an extension of his self. Terri and her appearance reflected on Michael’s sense of his self. ”
_______________________________________

Apparently Crystal you were unaware of the biographical information widely distributed about Mrs Schiavo.

This excerpt is typical of what has been published:

“Terri Schiavo grew up in a middle-class subdivision outside Philadelphia as the oldest of three kids. An animal lover who was shy and insecure about her weight, she had more hamsters and birds than friends. By 1981, in her senior year at an all-girls Roman Catholic high school, she had reached as much as 250 pounds—at which point she went on a NutriSystem diet and quickly lost about 100 pounds. Soon thereafter, she met Michael Schiavo at a community college, and he asked her out. “She fell for the first guy who came along and paid any attention to her,” her sister Suzanne told NEWSWEEK in 2003. After dating for five months, the couple got engaged. They married in 1984 and eventually moved to Florida.”

You can read more on this aspect of Mrs Schiavos history at these links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7306483/site/newsweek/

http://www.jhunewsletter.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/03/24/424316b421cf8
_______________________________________

The point is that Crystal opines that Mrs Schiavo “did most likely suffer from bulimia” and that the origin was somehow related to her marriage or more specifically:

“that it also fits in with Michael and Terri’s relationship.
His wanting and needing her to be thin as she was experienced as an extension of his self. Terri and her appearance reflected on Michael’s sense of his self. ”

______________________________________

The problem with this assertion by Crystal is that there is ample evidence that Mrs Schiavo had a dysfunctional relationship with food long before she ever met Michael Schiavo or married him. In fact every indication is that she was overweight most of her CHILDHOOD and that she rapidly lost weight in her senior year of high school- years before she married Michael Schiavo.

No evidence has ever been introduced that Michael Schiavo ever took issue with his wifes weight. The mother, father, brother or sister never made claims that Michael Schiavo ever forced his wife to diet or criticised her weight.

The fact of the matter is that Mrs Schiavo had a CHILDHOOD weight problem and she drastically lost weight in her adolesence/young adulthood.
______________________________________

Some facts on eating disorders:

Eating disorders pose serious potential health problems, including heart failure. According to The National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), “Eating disorders are not due to a failure of will or behavior; rather, they are real, treatable medical illnesses in which certain maladaptive patterns of eating take on a life of their own.” Eating disorders affect over 25 million people nationwide, according to the National Eating Disorders Association.

There are three major types of eating disorders: anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa and binge eating. Each disorder has many characteristic symptoms, according to WebMDHealth.

Symptoms of anorexia nervosa include: body weight that is less than 85 percent of what is expected, absence of menstrual periods and overexercise. Bulimia nervosa is diagnosed when individuals exhibit binge-purge: binging by quickly consuming a large amount of food and then purging by vomiting, overexercising, or taking laxatives or other drugs.
_______________________________________

Now some scary facts:

There are many serious consequences of eating disorders. According to the Academy of Eating Disorders, an eating disorder may cause abnormally low heart rate, abdominal distress, hypotension, anemia, kidney dysfunction, cardiovascular problems, changes in brain structure and osteoporosis. Purging by vomiting can cause salivary glands to swell, disrupt mineral and electrolyte balance and erode dental enamel.
_______________________________________

You’ll notice that if Mrs Terri Schiavo suffered from bulemia her post collapse medical issues pretty much fit with these:

cardiovascular problems (HER arrythmia and cardiac arrest), changes in brain structure (More susceptible to catastrophic brain damage) and osteoporosis (The BONE SCAN). Purging by vomiting can cause salivary glands to swell, disrupt mineral and electrolyte balance (Her hypoalkalemia upon admission to hospital) and erode dental enamel (Her darkened teeth).

Comment by Unreal — 4/25/2005 @ 8:49 am

Here is a link to a news article with a pretty extensive analysis of the eating disorder aspects of the Mrs Terri Schiavo case. The title of the article is:

Why Terri died The story behind the news story: Schiavo had an eating disorder
By Candace Murphy, STAFF WRITER

http://www.insidebayarea.com/bayarealiving/ci_2681227

Comment by Unreal — 4/25/2005 @ 8:27 pm

Hey Unreal — you know that guy that was killed with a sword? Stabbed 30 times in VA a few years back? He had a heart condition — that’s really why he died.

Comment by Ogre — 4/26/2005 @ 4:51 am

Hey Ogre, no I hadn’t heard about that. I’m not sure why you bring it up but I’ll tell you that my posting the title to the article and the link to it was not because I agree with the title of the article. Like Crystal I suspect that Mrs Schiavo had a eating disorder that led to her collapse and brain damage. I think it would be tragic to overlook this aspect of Mrs Schiavos life especially if even one person is encouraged to seek out and receive the help they need if they look at this aspect of Mrs Schiavos life and are moved in some way by it.

There are many lessons that can be taken out of this tragedy. The media and most people have focused on how Mrs Schiavos life ended and the lessons to be taken from that. Perhaps in her life there are other lessons and messages that will touch someone on a very personal level.

People can be moved to change the laws.

People can be moved to try to assign blame.

Hopefully some people will be moved to change the course of their own life for the better.

Whether that means getting help to leave an abusive relationship or getting help to overcome an eating disorder.

To anyone I have offended I apologize. I apologize to you Ogre as I have obviously offended you. The story of Mrs Schiavo has apparently led you along a different path.

Somewhere out there a person is meant to receive a gift from the story of the life of Mrs Terri Schiavo.

Comment by Unreal — 4/26/2005 @ 11:01 am

I just wanted to point out to the author that they have relied on information spun by the parents’ legal team.

For example, had the author read the deposition of Dr. Walker, they would have seen Walker admit that what he saw could just have easily been caused by the paramedics and the subsequent year of physical therapy, as Dr. Carnahan, the attending rehab physican, stated.

Because of that, the author has placed their professional credentials in jeopardy, by accusing someone they have never personally met of being a violent felon.

As a willful act it is unlikely that insurance would cover any tort claims.

Similarly, Dr. Lieberman can kiss her license goodbye should Schiavo ever file a complaint with the California medical board.

BTW, the autopsy results (due in less than a month) will be definitive as to whether abuse occurred.

Comment by Bill — 5/13/2005 @ 9:05 am

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